<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
				<!-- generator="e107" -->
				<!-- content type="News" -->
				<rss  version="2.0">
				<channel>
				<title>AI Ramblings : News</title>
				<link>/blog/</link>
				<description></description>

<language>en-gb</language>
				<copyright>This site is powered by <a href="http://e107.org/" rel="external">e107</a>, which is released under the terms of the <a href="http://www.gnu.org/" rel="external">GNU</a> GPL License.</copyright>
				<managingEditor>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</managingEditor>
				<webMaster>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</webMaster>
				<pubDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 20:34:06 +0200</pubDate>
				<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Sep 2010 20:34:06 +0200</lastBuildDate>
				<docs>http://backend.userland.com/rss</docs>
				<generator>e107 (http://e107.org)</generator>
				<ttl>60</ttl>
					<image>
					<title>AI Ramblings : News</title>
					<url>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/button.png</url>
					<link>/blog/</link>
					<width>88</width>
					<height>31</height>
					<description></description>
					</image>
						<item>
						<title>Objects as epistemological artifacts</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.10.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small">To follow on a few arguments I had at some blogs like <a href="http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/the-world-is-digital/#comment-1600">Gödel’s Lost Letter</a>, <a href="http://www.vetta.org/2009/05/on-universal-intelligence/#comment-19802">vetta project</a>, <a href="http://hunch.net/?p=703&amp;cpage=1#comment-279563">Machine Learning (Theory)</a> and <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029056">The n-Category Café</a> I think I need to clarify the matter about my personnal stance on "objects" and ontologies, this also for my own benefit.<br />   I am <em>strongly</em>  anti-platonist because all evidence points to the irrelevance of metaphysical postures for the <strong>actual practice</strong> in mathematics and engineering.<br /> There is no need to question and look and check for the <em>actual existence</em> of objects and concepts (which are also objects, supposedly <em>abstract</em> and <em>immaterial</em>) "in reality" because objects and concepts are <strong>NOT</strong> part of reality but part of our <em>representation</em> of reality (whatever one's view of reality is).<br /> We shoudln't fear to be lacking of any sort of objects <strong>as representations</strong> (including pink unicorns) because as shown by the "existence" of the <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/fraisse_limits.html">Rado Graph</a> any fancy (countable) structure can be found.<br /> The only trouble we can have is <em>improper use of language</em> (mathematical or otherwise) in our attempts to pin down "an object", that is a <a href="http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/papers/definedness.pdf">lack of definedness</a>, mistakenly expecting that a sentence (or any sort of syntactical construct) actually <em>points</em> (denotes) an object (one and the same) in a consistent manner.<br /><br /> As I <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029252">hinted</a> the <strong>only purpose</strong> of objects is to serve as carriers of properties in our discourse.<br /> Think about it for a moment, how could we organize <strong>any</strong> display of information if it were not possible to <em>refer</em> to the "same thing" at two or more distinct places in a discourse of any kind?<br /> This is why objects must be intemporal (eternal), we already have enough trouble with the shifting of meanings due to the fuzziness of actual communication practices without having an indeterminacy <em>"in principles"</em>.<br /> This leads the <a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism/">Platonists</a> to believe in the existence of abstract objects as some ghostly duplicates (non-physical and non-mental) of material objects, this is only a <strong>clumsy projection of folk intuition</strong>.<br /> Objects are <em>referents</em> not "things" in the lay meaning of the word.<br /> Furthermore <strong>ANY POSSIBLE OBJECT</strong> potentially exists, any piece carved out of the <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/fraisse_limits.html">Rado Graph</a> can serve as a <em>referent</em>, a <em>label</em>, a <em>pointer</em> in a discourse, being both recognizably distinct and unique (up to isomorphism).<br /> Trying to sort out <em>which</em> objects "exist" like the Platonists do is <strong>devoid of any meaning</strong>, because all do exist.<br /> Which doesn't mean that we should have an interest in every of them or will ever <em>meet</em> them all.<br /> As <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/René_Thom">René Thom</a> said <a href="http://andreacortis.blogspot.com/2008/02/rene-thom-and-la-carte-du-sens.html">"Truth is not limited by falsity, but by insignificance"</a>.<br /><br />   Therefore what's the point with ontologies?<br /><br />   Ontologies are not just lists of "existing objects" they <em>necessarily</em> involve some <strong>language</strong> with wich they define the objects and their relationships.<br /> And <strong>this</strong> is the valuable part of ontologies, they establish the basis for some discourse.<br /> They also enforce a somewhat arbitrary partition of the "reality" they aim to be about, what is known in linguistic  as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity">Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis</a>.<br /> However there is no <strong>one true right ontology</strong> it all depends on the problems at hand and even for the same one problem (or class of problems) there are many possible ways to "ontologize" it, like <a href="http://www.rbjones.com/rbjpub/philos/bibliog/hatch82.htm">foundational problems in mathematics</a>.<br /> What makes the difference is the <em>convenience</em> of the ontology relative to the questions sought for.<br /> This is why quasi-religious haggling about the "right way" to talk or think about this or that is pretty pointless.<br /><br /> Yet, <em>shifting our perspective</em> (swapping/altering ontologies) is something we do so naturally and with so much ease (if not rigor <img src='http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/obe00000.gif' alt='' style='vertical-align:middle; border:0' />  ) that we forget how critical it is for our thinking process.<br />   The <a href="http://www.cut-the-knot.org/pythagoras/">many different proofs</a> of any given theorem <strong>require</strong> such "translations" between sligthly different perspectives, <strong>at least with respect to the lemmas used in the proof</strong> which, though may be defined inside a same general framework, are not necessarily related in an obligatory manner. And, may I remind you, lemmas <strong>ARE OBJECTS ON THEIR OWN</strong>, they have names, they can be recognized and beside terminology quarrels they have unicity.<br /> It is this ability to <em>build objects tailored to a purpose</em> which is the key to our ability to deal "intelligently" with the world, what Barwise &amp; Etchemendy call <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&amp;q=%22Heterogeneous+Reasoning%22++Barwise++Etchemendy&amp;btnG=Search&amp;as_sdt=2000&amp;as_ylo=&amp;as_vis=0">heterogeneous reasoning</a>.<br /> As far as I know <a href="http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/creative/node2.html">The Mutilated Checkerboard</a> problem is still <strong>NOT</strong> solved in AI except by brute force because it requires (so called...) human creativity in choosing a clever approach, i.e. <em>shifting the perspective</em>.<br /><br />   This is why I object to the <a href="http://hunch.net/?p=727&amp;cpage=1#comment-280054">simplistic view of Marcus Hutter and als</a>, that AI is about <a href="http://hunch.net/?p=703&amp;cpage=1#comment-279909">sequence prediction</a>.<br /><br /> I also deem all "foundational quarrels" in mathematics <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2009/11/interview_with_manin.html#c029267">entirely irrelevant</a>.<br /><br />   What needs to be done is to figure out what we are exactly doing when we shift perspectives and juggle wit h ontologies, because <strong>WE DO IT</strong> (successfully...)<br />  <img src='http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/rnr.gif' alt='' style='vertical-align:middle; border:0' /> <br /><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong></span>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:20:43 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.10.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>Almost right...</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.9.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small">    I found a paper by <a href="http://www.vub.ac.be/CLEA/aerts/">Diederik Aerts</a> about composite concepts recognition which in spite of the mouthful of the title (<a href="http://uk.arxiv.org/abs/0705.1740">General Quantum Modeling of Combining Concepts:       A Quantum Field Model in Fock Space</a>) hints at a very simple and always overlooked fact: <em>We do not use any "obvious" logic in our actual appraisal of category membership.</em><br /><br />    Following several previous papers of his own about the use of quantum logic instead of classical (boolean) logic  this one sum up the whole of his ideas on the matter and demonstrates a stunning adequacy to <em>experimental results</em> from cognitive psychologist <a href="http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/hampton/index.htm">James Hampton</a>.<br /><br /> To quickly highlight the main point, it amounts to have the concepts somehow warp their "expected" combination (conjunctive or disjunctive) depending on the instance member to be tested for.<br />To this purpose Diederik Aerts deploys the full gear of Quantum Field Theory with excellent results, however...<br />Beside being quite an overkill this monstrous apparatus is still in need of a little help from the experimenter in the form of "appropriately choosen" quantum angles which parametrize the sought for quantum interferences.<br />    With such finely hand tuned values Aerts quantum model of concepts combination gets an astounding <strong>zero discrepancy</strong> with respect to almost all experimental measurements of human responses.<br /><br />Not only is it highly suspicious to have a "perfect match" with psychological experiments necessarily subject to measurement errors but, alas, a few unruly sample cases refuse to bow to the quantum model dictums no matter the choice of the "quantum angles", what a pity!<br /><br />     This otherwise <strong>outstanding</strong> piece of work suffers from a common disease, trying to forcefully shoehorn the reality into a whimsical model instead of trying to unravel more cogent causes for the observations.<br />From both the succesful cases (even if a bit cheated) and the failing ones it should be obvious that:     </span><ul>       <li><span style="font-size: small">Whenever concepts are combined in a composite query they interact in intricate "non classical" ways.</span></li>       <li><span style="font-size: small">Quantum logic as such isn't the perfect match to model this interaction.</span></li>     </ul>      <span style="font-size: small"><em><br />Why the heck would it have to be?</em><br />Like the <a href="http://www.myastrologybook.com/Pythagoras-five-regular-Platonic-solids.htm">Platonic Solids</a> were to match the planets orbits?<br /><br /></span><span style="color: #ff0000"><span style="font-size: small"> That was by itself an excellent enlightening exercise in new concepts formation, but now would somebody please give us the <em>actual</em> model of concepts interactions which show up in Hampton's experiments?</span><br /></span><img src="http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/blues000.gif" style="border: 0px none " alt="blues000.gif" /><br /><br /><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong> [/html]]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:42:35 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.9.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>The smell of Strong AI</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.8.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small"> In my decades long survey of the field I had <em>totally overlooked</em> the works of  <a href="http://www.isi.edu/~hobbs/">Jerry Hobbs</a>, yet he seems on the right path, still a bit entangled in "ontology problems" may be and having too much interest in the silly Semantic Web (I hope it's only a matter of budgets...) but I think he is definitely tackling the right questions at the meeting point of Language and Logic.<br /></span><img src="http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/obe00000.gif" style="border: 0px none " alt="obe00000.gif" /><br /><strong><span style="font-size: small">Submitted by Kevembuangga<br /></span><br /></strong>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 19:04:44 +0200</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.8.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>Roger Schank defects</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.7.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small">In a recent answer to <a href="http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_7.html#schank" rel="external">The Edge Annual Question</a>  Roger Schank said:<br /><blockquote><em> When reporters interviewed me in the 70's and 80's about the possibilities for Artificial Intelligence I would always say that we would have machines that are as smart as we are within my lifetime. It seemed a safe answer since no one could ever tell me I was wrong. But I no longer believe that will happen.</em> </blockquote> Of course, GOFAI won't do it!<br />The wrong headed directions promoted by the biggest stars of AI have done much, much harm to AI,  even leading (in 1984 already!) to a  panel discussion at AAAI-84: <a href="http://www.bibsonomy.org/bibtex/2b5506b6763500f37ac8399d27b8205f4/dblp" target="_blank">The Dark Ages of AI</a>   where Schank himself acknowledged the problem, even later <a href="http://cogprints.org/435/0/Where's_the_AI__Schank.html" target="_blank">elaborating on his own view</a> of the difficulties he said:<br /><blockquote> <em>It is not that AI needs definition, it is more that AI needs substance</em></blockquote> <em><strong>Wrong!<br /></strong></em>AI does need a definition!<br />No wonder that this didn't spur any improvment in the field, the culprit was the obsessive focus on logic that he now recognize in the Edge answer :<br /><blockquote><em>Early AI workers sought out intelligent behaviors to focus on, like chess or problem solving, and tried to build machines that could equal human beings in those same endeavors. While this was an understandable approach it was, in retrospect, wrong-headed.<br /></em></blockquote>Yet, he doesn't really grasp why this was </span><span style="font-size: small">wrong-headed, it's not because <em>"Chess playing is not really a typical intelligent human activity"</em>.<br />He hints at the real cause (<em>"How can we imitate what humans are doing when humans don't know what they are doing when they do it?"</em>) but doesn't quite come thru to the full conclusion:<br /><br /><em><strong>We need to know what we want to do, no just tinker around with "promising" research projects.</strong></em><br /><br />The various current crazes about natural language processing, robotics and even statistical learning will be as deceptive as GOFAI, may be bringing a few high-tech gimmicks on the side but not of more decisive import than expert-systems which were the main outcome of GOFAI.<br /><br />The common trap in which all AI researchers seem to fall is that they are always working on <em><strong>already human-elaborated concepts</strong></em> and whatever "good tricks" they find for processing and "massaging" those concepts more efficiently they are oblivious to the fact that <strong><em>they</em> </strong>  made up the concepts at start <em><strong>not  </strong></em>the computer.<br />The most basic question therefore seems to be what do we put in a concept?<br />When and how do we come up with the words we use to talk and think, apple, water, red, line, cosine, mountain, etc...<br /><br /></span><span style="font-size: small"> In the rest of the Edge answer Roger Schank basically give up.<br />Well, good riddance sir...<br />One less nearly useless budget eater!<br /></span><img src="http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/nage0000.gif" style="border: 0px none " alt="nage0000.gif" /><br /><span style="font-size: small"><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong></span>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:48:16 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.7.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>Seeing the forest from the trees (of "open problems")</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.6.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small"> Anyone having had an interest in AI for a while has surely collected a list of "open problems" or "key problems" like the one <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/" rel="external">Peter Turney</a> recently <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/open-problems/" target="_blank">blogged about</a>.<br /><br />I haven't made an exact tally of mine but among the 2000-3000 papers for which I kept a record there are probably over 50  which I can certainly  call "key problems", so far so good then what the heck do I do with this now?<br /><br />Pick one which I deem among the most importants and try to <em>"work on it"</em>?<br />Mmmmm...<br />How likely is it that I will do better than the original researchers?<br />I would need to have an edge over them on <em><strong>something</strong></em>.<br />Which "thing"?<br />Some of these guys have spent a lifetime on their "favorite problem" and I am not even sure I really grasp the matter they are delving, though I can spot it as an important point.<br />Some are utterly brilliant <a href="http://www.merl.com/people/brand/" target="_blank">Matthew Brand</a>, <a href="http://www.puttypeg.com/papers/" target="_blank">Dominic Widdows</a>,  <a href="http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~easwaran/" target="_blank">Kenny Easwaran</a>  (only a random sample from memory, those are a dime a dozen...)<br />Some are <strong>both</strong> utterly brilliant and spent a lifetime on hard problems  <a href="http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Grothendieck.html" target="_blank">Grothendieck</a>,  <a href="http://math.stanford.edu/~feferman/" target="_blank">Feferman</a>.<br />Am I (or almost anyone else) really hoping to "magically" make a breakthrough where those people <a href="http://antimeta.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/foundations-of-category-theory/" target="_blank">seem to be lingering over</a>?<br /><br />Yet, yet...<br /><br />What they are <em><strong>all</strong></em> doing is tackling the trees, some of those among the hardest trees.<br />For reasons of competitive research (<a href="news.php?item.5.1">previous post</a>) they <em><strong>have </strong></em>to produce evidence of their smartness and hard work.<br />This is some kind of depth first search, a hit or miss, the most brilliant get some nuggets the less brilliant or just infortunate get <em><strong>nada</strong></em>.<br />In any case this doesn't shed much light over the whole landscape, the <em><span style="color: #ff0000"><strong>forest</strong></span>.</em>..<br /><br />What else could be done, instead of <a href="http://dialinf.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">forcefully digging even deeper</a>?<br /><br />I see two options:<br /></span><ul><li><span style="font-size: small">prioritizing the problems, looking for the one(s) which are likely to have precedence over others in the (hypothetically assumed) path toward solutions.<br /></span></li><li><span style="font-size: small">reframing one or more know problems into a different question by "stepping back" and trying to find a more general framework within which the pending problems will be seen as only a special case of a more general question (going "<a href="http://liafa1.liafa.jussieu.fr/web9/rapportrech/description_en.php?idrapportrech=195" target="_blank">meta</a>", see about <a href="http://wyvern.cs.uni-duesseldorf.de/~arigo/tunes-cliki/jacques_20pitrat.html" target="_blank">Jacques PITRAT</a>, the only usefull reference I found since he is not an english speaker).<br /></span></li></ul><span style="font-size: small"><br />As usual I "just have" to do it...<br /><br /><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong></span>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:57:20 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.6.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>Is competition a problem?</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.5.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small"><a href="http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/" rel="external">Daniel Lemire</a> and <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow">Peter Turney</a> have had an argument about the benefits of <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/competition-in-science/" target="_blank">competition versus cooperation</a> in science.<br />Since my opinions are (as usual...) no too well received on other people blogs I will summarize here what else I see as problematic with competition.<br /><br />In a succeding post of Peter Turney he mentioned that <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/open-problems/" target="_blank">Einstein was  inspired by a book by Henri Poincaré</a>, to me this is a perfect example of what  Daniel Lemire said :<br /></span><blockquote><span style="font-size: small"><em>"After all, being the first to solve a given scientific problem, is </em><em>important.</em><br /><em> Science is a winner-takes-all game, at least some of time."</em><br /></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: small">Actually it can be said that Einstein was "inspired" by the works of many (Poincaré, Lorentz, Minkowski, Hilbert, Grossmann, ...) though his groundbreaking publications did not include references to the work of others.<br />And after a few productive years (roughly 1905-1915) Einstein's findings appear remarkably bland and very much lacking of any insight ("God doesn't play dice" re quantum mechanics...).<br /></span><span style="font-size: small">Puting aside the vexing nature of this for the forgotten contributors  and </span><span style="font-size: small">not to detract to the performance of having been able to make a synthesis of research trends of his time, this also breeds among the public a lot of misconceptions about science, lone geniuses and the like, which are used by a few scoundrels to sell snake oil or politically loaded agendas, "miracle cures" for this or that, creationism, toxic cults, etc...<br /><br />So whenever Peter Turney says :<br /></span><blockquote><span style="font-size: small"><em>"There is a conflict between competition and cooperation in science. </em><br /><em>I feel that conflict myself, but I strive for cooperation. </em><br /><em>I have never regretted sharing my ideas."</em><br /></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: small">May be he is overlooking a few other nefarious effects of competition beyond the selfless/selfish  antagonism.<br /><br />But even the misrepresentaion of science within the general public doesn't appear to me as the most serious problem with science.<br />What seems much more dangerous is the end result of giving the "competitive naked apes" a lot of powerfull gizmos which they tend to use as carelessly as if they were stone axes.<br />Breaking the neighbour's skulls with a stone axe is of course unfortunate but doesn't entail much damage, having Kim Jong-il, GW Bush and Ahmadinejad playing "nuke poker" is a game in a wholly different league (it seems to me...).<br /><br />I do not share the optimism </span><span style="font-size: small">Peter Turney </span><span style="font-size: small">shows in his <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/11/15/the-second-most-important-research-problem/" target="_blank">"Second Most Important Research Problem"</a>, I see no good reason to suppose that cooperation can be agreed upon in most cases because "private" interests whether of groups or individuals are likely to <em><strong>always</strong></em> conflict on one point or another.<br />There is no such thing as the "general good" and it is not a matter of lack of rationality in trying to define it.<br />This is why though I find AI a very valuable research goal I am not really at ease with it.<br /><br />Not because, like the silly paranoid <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularitarianism">Singularitarians</a> (Hanson, Yudkowsky, Anissimov, etc...), I fear that the "Big Bad Autonomous AI" will take over humans and cull the masses of useless apes, but because the said useless apes are very well able to turn <em><strong>any</strong></em> technical capability into <em>"improved" </em>means to pursue their lethal competitives practices.<br /><br />Because in the end it's not the "intelligent monkeys" who are in control  but the ones with the biggest egos and the "biggest balls".<br /><br /><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong></span>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:02:39 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.5.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>Reification</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.4.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small">After posting a somewhat abstruse comment </span><span style="font-size: small">at <a href="http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/the-most-important-research-problem" rel="external">Apperceptual</a>  where I struggled to explain the reasons why I reject some forms of "obstinate rationality" (there is "one true answer" to whatever question in a perfect Platonic world) I had a mail exchange with Peter Turney in which we agreed that an important point in knowledge representation is the reification of relations as full fledged concepts.<br /><br />Mathematically a relation is just a subset of the cartesian product of its arguments domains, colloqially and in all philosophical discourses it is a much richer object where many extra qualities (properties, attributes, connotations, etc...) are actually attached to the "core meaning" which holds between its arguments.<br /><br />This shows quite appropriately in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptual_graphs" target="_blank">Conceptual graphs</a> formalism  where what can be originally seen as a plain relation "sitting(cat, mat)"  (a relation node) is turned into a<br />more complex <a href="http://www.webkb.org/doc/CGs.html" target="_blank">concept node</a>.<br />This allows within the same framework to actually represent more detailled information about the "sitting" than the bare 'agent' and 'location' arguments, for instance :<br /><br /><strong>[Sitting *x] -(agent)-> [Cat Elsie]<br />                </strong></span><span style="font-size: small"><strong>     -(location)-> [Mat *y]<br />                </strong></span><span style="font-size: small"><strong>     -(modality)-> [Mood quietly]</strong></span><br /><span style="font-size: small"><br />One should note two points:<br /><br />- The reified concept is <em>still</em> a relation but maybe only in a more "philosophical" sense in that it is not too clear which "weight" each argument of this now ternary relation (agent, location, modality) has to be given when looking for "comparable" relations, like when searching a database for matching instances.<br /><br />- The "arguments" can in fact  <em>ALSO</em> be viewed as relations over some domains :<br /></span><ul><li><span style="font-size: small">"agency" instances where the action is a sitting and the "perpetrator" is a cat.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: small">"localisation" instances where the place is a mat and the "happenstance" a sitting.</span></li><li><span style="font-size: small">"modalities" instances where the action is a sitting and the "quality" a quiet mood.</span></li></ul><span style="font-size: small"><br />So the questions which arise from this are :<br /><br />- How do we deal in logic with the "extraneous" arguments to a reified relation which we somehow want to "consider a bit" but not too much since they are only "supplementary" to the core relation?<br /><br />- Where do we stop the reification, when is it sensible to <em>ALSO</em> reify what was originally just an argument name ('agent' of an action verb for instance) and has been turned to a relation by the previous reification?<br /><br />- Since the CG kind of formalism is entirely equivalent to First Order Logic (see about the "phi-operator" in <a href="http://www-ksl.stanford.edu/email-archives/interlingua.messages/427.html" target="_blank">Higher-Order KIF and Conceptual Graphs</a>) what does it mean to play around with the "carving out" of various relations from an initial "master formulation" of a problem statement?<br /><br />To me this means that there is surely an extra degree of freedom involved in the translation from the "intuitive" formulation of a problem into any kind of formalised logic (FOL or even higher) which is almost always <em>OVERLOOKED</em>.<br /><br />This is one of the basis of my discontent whith the hard core rationalists who seem to have an absolute faith in their formalisations.<br />They just forget the messy business they had to come up with the said formalisations and keep rehashing irrelevant "metaphysical" considerations about consistency, truth and existence (the Platonists vices...).<br /><br />While chatting about this with <a href="http://www.apperceptual.com/" target="_blank">Peter Turney</a> he suggested that <a href="http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/gentner/" target="_blank">Dedre Gentner's</a> paper <a href="http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/gentner/newpdfpapers/Gentner03b.pdf" target="_blank">Why We're So Smart</a>  "may be of interest":<br /><br /><em>You'll need to translate from cognitive psychology to logic, but I think you'll<br />find that the paper is talking about the power of reifying and de-reifying.<br /></em><br />and indeed it is!<br /><br />She highlighted the critical role of relations in cognition while still viewing them as an instance the more general framework of "a concept":<br /><br /><em>First, relational concepts are critical to higher-order cognition, but relational concepts are both nonobvious in initial learning and elusive in memory retriev<b></b>al.</em><br /><br />I haven't yet came up with a "translation from cognitive psychology to logic" but I am working on it and will post whatever ruminations I can milk out of this.<br /><img src="http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/e107_images/emotes/smart/sal.gif" style="border: 0px none " alt="sal.gif" /><br /></span><br /><span style="font-size: medium"> </span><br /><strong>Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong> [/html]]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:38:49 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.4.1</guid>
</item>
						<item>
						<title>A brand new blog</title>
<link>http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.3.1</link>
<description><![CDATA[<span style="font-size: small">As it becomes harder and harder to keep a consistent conversation over other people blogs I finally made it. I expect to gather here the follow ups of threads like these :<br /><a class='bbcode' href='http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2515#comment-37834' rel='external' >Gödel, Nagel, minds and machines</a><br /><a class='bbcode' href='http://apperceptual.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/the-most-important-research-problem' rel='external' >The Most Important Research Problem</a><br /><a class='bbcode' href='http://artificial-artificial-intelligence.com/index.php/2007/11/20/combining_heterogeneous_classifiers' rel='external' >Combining Heterogeneous Classifiers</a><br /><br /><strong class='bbcode bold'> Submitted by Kevembuangga</strong></span>]]></description>
<author>jld@nospam.com (Kevembuangga)</author>
<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:45:52 +0100</pubDate>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.3.1</guid>
</item>
				</channel>
				</rss>